Downed B-24, 10/1/43

[Tyler Bridges]

I am researching the shooting down of the Fascinatin' Witch, a B-24 piloted by my father, Richard W. Bridges, just after it bombed Wiener Neustadt, Austria, on October 1, 1943. Aircraft number 41-23811. 44th Bomb Group, 66th Squadron.

I have several lines of inquiry that I'd like to pursue if anyone can help me.

1. Where can I go to find the German account of the damage of the bombing on Wiener Neustadt? The target was a Messerschmidt airframe factory.
2. Where can I go to find the Luftwaffe account of its action against the American warplanes that day, including perhaps the account of shooting down my father's plane? Would this account include the ground fire (flak)?
3. Where can I go to get the German or Austrian account of the crash site of the Fascinatin' Witch?
4. Where can I go to get the German or Austrian account of the capture of the six members of my father's crew who bailed out and were captured on Austrian soil south of Wiener Neustadt?
5. Where can I go to get the German or Austrian account of the retrieval and burial of the three members of my father's crew who went down with the plane?

Thank you, Tyler Bridges

[Peter Kassak]

try to search here for the unit records:
http://www.44thbombgroup.com/main.html

here is list of all german claims known:

1. October 1943

U.S.A.A.F. XII Bomber Command: WIENER NEUSTADT

01.10.43 Major Kurt Ubben: n.L. Stab III./JG 77 B-17 £ 14 Ost S/04 195: at 3.200 m. 11.55 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr. -
01.10.43 Fw. Alfred Scharl: 6 2./JG 53 P-38 £ 15 km. S.W. Livorno: 4.000 m. 12.46 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr.350
01.10.43 Oblt. Josef Jansen: 4 2./JG 27 B-24 £ E.N.E. Wiener Neustadt: 5.500-6.000 m. 12.55 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr.19
01.10.43 Ltn. Gerhard Keppler: 7 2./JG 27 B-24 £ b. Wiener Neustadt: 5.500-6000 m. 12.57 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr.19
01.10.43 Uffz. Hans Hambeck: 2 1./JG 27 B-24 £ S. Wiener Neustadt: 5.000 m. 12.59 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr.162
01.10.43 Fw. Otto Haas: 2 1./JG 27 B-24 HSS £ 20 km. S. Wiener Neustadt: 5.000 m. 13.05 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr.170
01.10.43 Fw. Gustav Sturm: 1./JG 27 B-24 e.V. £ S.S.W. Wiener Neustadt: 5.500 m. 13.05 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr.170
01.10.43 Hptm. Hans Remmer: 19 1./JG 27 B-24 £ 35 km. S.S.W. Wiener Neustadt: 5.000 m. 13.06 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr.166
01.10.43 Ltn. Emil Kaiser: 12 3./JG 27 B-24 £ 30-40 km. S. Wiener Neustadt: 4.500 m. 13.10 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr.32
01.10.43 Ofw. Alfred Surau: 44 9./JG 3 B-17 £ 15 km. S.W. Feldkirch: 4.000 m. 13.33 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr.838
01.10.43 Ltn. Stahlberg: n.L. 8./JG 3 B-17 £ 98 HT-6: 5.000 m. 13.35 Film C. 2031/II VNE:ASM
01.10.43 Ofw. Alfred Surau: 45 9./JG 3 B-17 £ Landquart: 3.700 m. (Switzerland) 13.40 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr.839
01.10.43 Uffz. Meyer-Arend: n.L. 8./JG 3 B-17 £ 97 JU-4: 4.000 m. (N. Chur) 13.44 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr.549
01.10.43 Uffz. Erich Kreul: 3 9./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ 25 km. S.S.E. Feldkirch: 4.000 m. 13.45 Film C. 2031/II VNE:ASM
01.10.43 Ltn. Raimund Koch: 8 8./JG 3 B-17 £ JT-8: 4.500 m. (Ilanz 40 km. W. Chur) 13.47 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr.559

Supplemental Claims from Other Sources:
01.10.43 Ltn. Horst Grimm: n.b 2./JG 27 B-24 £ S. Weiner Neustadt 13.00 Reference: JG 27 Lists f. 572
01.10.43 Ltn. Horst Grimm: n.b. 2./JG 27 B-24 £ Raum Weiner Neustadt 13.05 Reference: JG 27 Lists f. 572
01.10.43 Uffz. Franz Mörl: n.b. 2./JG 27 B-24 £ - - Reference: JG 27 Lists f. 572
01.10.43 Ltn. Emil Kaiser: n.b. 3./JG 27 B-24 £ Raum Weiner Neustadt 13.00 Reference: JG 27 Lists f. 572
01.10.43 Ofw. Rainer Pöttgen: n.b. 3./JG 27 B-24 £ - - Reference: JG 27 Lists f. 572
01.10.43 Uffz. Wolfgang Rentsch: 2 * 7./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ - - Reference: JG 3 Lists f. 501
01.10.43 Oblt. Emil Bitsch: 105 8./JG 3 B-17 £ - 13.44 Reference: JG 3 Lists f. 501
01.10.43 Ltn. Raimund Koch: 9 8./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ - - Reference: JG 3 Lists f. 501

Then you can try to pick up a group which might be involved. There are history books for all units written by Mr. Mombeek or Dr. Prien.

and try NARA, Washington and search for MACR, MIssion report and KU report related to the case of your fathers plane.

that is for the start. It is a puzzle and no one gives you complete answer.

[Tyler Bridges]

Hi Peter:

Thanks so much for taking the time to offer your knowledge. Because I'm so ignorant, allow me to ask a few follow up questions.

1. What exactly is all the information that you've provided under the German claims? Does this list consist of the names of Luftwaffe pilots who claimed shoot downs that day over Wiener Neustadt? What is the information after their names? Where does this list come from? And the October 1 heading at the top of your post, does that come from some sort of larger report?
2. You mention the "KU" for my father's plane -- what is that?

I am planning to visit NARA next month, so you are giving me good information?

Also, a more general question: Can I expect to find more archives on my father's shoot down and what happened to his crew at NARA or at Maxwell AFB? I'm trying to figure out how to parcel my limited time.

Do you -- or someone else -- know how to get information to my original questions 1, 3, 4 and 5?

Also, where can I go to get eyewitness accounts of the shoot down or local newspaper accounts?

Finally, do you -- or someone else -- know whether returned POWs typically provided some sort of narrative of their shoot down, capture and time as POWs? I'd like to get these reports, if they exist, for the six members of my father's crew who bailed out and were captured.

Thanks so much,

Tyler Bridges

tbridges@mcclatchydc.com

[Peter Kassak]

Hi Tyler,

Info in the list is name of pilot who claimed victory, then unit, then enemy aircraft, then location, height of attack, time.
To be more into the knowledge of the Luftwaffe units etc. just use google.com and some basic pages of the Luftwaffe units, organization etc.
At NARA you have ti look for Narrative mission report for that Bomb Group and the particular day, Bombing summary, Mission summary, Missing Air Crew report (MACR) for your fathers plane. You may also try to obtain personal record of your father. In the you possibly find also rewritten german report of the crew captivity designed as coming from some KU file. KU files were files which contains German reports informing about the plane or crew. None knows what is inside when you open each file...
To find personal accounts of witnesses you should try to contact town hall, local archive of th village, town where your fthers plane crashed, and to get into a touch with some Austrian aviatin researcher.

POWs were interrogated, and there migt be narrative of your father. It should be mentioned/included in the MACR...

good luck

[Tyler Bridges]

Hi Peter:

Thank you again for helping me out. So the KU files might provide the German account of the shootdown that day, right? I will look for that when I get to NARA next month.

You listed a bunch of pilots claiming shoot downs on October 1, 1943 near Wiener Neustadt. How do I determine which ones might have shot down my father's plane?

From the American side, I can look for a number of reports: the mission summary, the bombing summary and the MACR, right?. I will also request my father's personnel file, but I've read that that might be in St. Louis (or it may have perished in the fire there).

I have already gotten my father's E&E report. I was asking whether there are reports for the six men who bailed out of my father's plane and spent the rest of the war in German POW camps. Would they have given some sort of narrative of the shootdown, their capture and their time as POWs upon their release? If so, I would like to get those reports for them.

Where can I find an Austrian researcher who would help me? My father's plane went down somewhere south of Wiener Neustadt. How do I find out where the plane went down?

Another question: Where can I go to get the Individual Deceased Personnel Files for the three crewmembers who died?

What can I get at Maxwell AFB that I can't get at NARA?

I welcome more comments from you, or from anyone else who wants to jump in.

Best,

Tyler Bridges

[Peter Kassak]

Tyler,

to answer all your questions would mean to have all materials and documents in my hand. use google.com and try to read older posts in this forum to find out some clues..
regards